tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post6398423003736936341..comments2024-03-13T08:16:23.560-07:00Comments on Indigenous Boats: Buckminster Fuller's Model Boat Collection, Part 1Bob Holtzmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-70844313277715867112017-05-31T07:02:24.116-07:002017-05-31T07:02:24.116-07:00Mick - many thanks yet again. Your investigations,...Mick - many thanks yet again. Your investigations, careful observation, and insights are much appreciated. <br />I'd like to touch base with you outside of this forum. Please email me: RSHoltzman (at) gmail.com<br />Bob Holtzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-88949090854704848532017-05-31T00:23:57.666-07:002017-05-31T00:23:57.666-07:00Hi Robert,
They’re not sewn together but nailed in...Hi Robert,<br />They’re not sewn together but nailed instead:<br /><br />The main source I based my comments on was the Thesiger collection of almost 300 photos which have some building/repair photos that show the basics of their construction.<br /> <br />http://www.prmprints.com/category/9588/thesiger-collection/iraq<br /><br />Of these are ones that I took for sewn inside:<br /> <br />http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/125/main/1/421818.jpg<br /><br />but instead are likely blobs of asphalt resin [likely mixed with mud] over each nail head as outlined in “Marsh Arabs in the Garden of Eden”<br /> <br />https://books.google.ca/books?id=vEZBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177#v=onepage&q&f=false<br /><br />where there was an aesthetic of exaggerating the nail heads. That aspect was unexpected. . . . <br />and in this one [a related mashuf being constructed]:<br /> <br />http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/125/main/1/421557.jpg<br /><br />you can plainly see how thin the planking was - although the ribbing in this example isn’t as closely spaced as in other photo examples.<br /> <br />Here’s another example of how frequently the ribbing ‘core’ was spaced:<br /> <br />http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/125/main/1/421698.jpg<br /><br />[this one really looked like sewing to me at the time - pre-iron, they probably were, but whose to know unless iconography shows].<br /><br />In any event, the exterior was thin planks side by side – as was the interior, with a core made up of closely spaced ribs. The exterior was covered in bitumen and the nail heads on the interior were covered with large blobs of bitumen to portray very noticeable even patterning. There was a gap of the interior sheathing[ceiling] at the chines so that logically the ‘composite’ core could be easily bailed if there was leakage . This grouping of elements would give quite stiff sides and hull bottom despite the thin materials used.<br /><br />regards,<br />mick allen<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-75824698524321126262017-05-30T05:29:10.476-07:002017-05-30T05:29:10.476-07:00Mick,
Thank you for more wonderful photo reference...Mick,<br />Thank you for more wonderful photo references and more fascinating speculation/investigation into the original of the "kneeling paddler" carving. The tarada, with the knurled feature at the top of the bow, does look so similar, and the idea that the model represents a melding of the tarada and the reed bundle boat seems credible. I wonder if the Marsh Arabs ever engage in tourist trade -- or perhaps is might have been carved by some enterprising craftsman in Baghdad without any connection to that culture.<br />The tarada's design is lovely, especially the first photo you reference. I've never heard of this kind of sandwich construction before. What is your source that that info?Bob Holtzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-14078041797065883212017-05-30T01:38:51.488-07:002017-05-30T01:38:51.488-07:00Hi Robert,
In your relatively recent blog [mar 23 ...Hi Robert,<br />In your relatively recent blog [mar 23 2017], you mentioned the “canoe-like bundle boat used on the Upper Nile by the Dinka and Shulluk people”:<br /><br />https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pa0dFQZW-CY/WNPWxOGovcI/AAAAAAAAemA/9U5dlQo7C5omnMRhf3MO6CiQ3v_voLAVgCLcB/s1600/Ambatch%2Bcanoe%2BUpper%2BNile.jpg<br /> <br />It reminded me that I had reflected upon a better derivation of the ‘Boat propelled by a kneeling paddler’ which is as follows:<br /><br />In the virtually destroyed Marsh-Arab culture of lower Iraq, there had been a similar bundle boat where the single bladed paddler adopted a similar position – kneeling on the top of the rear of the boat with a single long paddle - as in the carving in question:<br /><br />http://www.prmprints.com/image/421816/suaid-boy-paddling-a-raft<br /> <br />The bow extension of the reed boat is much longer than the truncated stern and in all 3 cases have curvature upward: but with the carved model in question from where comes the dramatic upward bow curvature, the flat sides to almost render chines, the inset leaflike carving on the sides and ‘deck’, and the rectangular knurling on the inside peak of the bow:<br /><br />https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-n0kjX-zjqeU/WBye-VtfuuI/AAAAAAAALRc/G_ozV7Lf1IMv0pSVgYoUmVIo6P2PbWptwCPcB/s1600/PB010305.JPG<br /> <br />In the Marsh Arab culture alongside the reed boat, there coexisted a most dramatic small craft called the ‘Tarada’. The tarada had long sweeping ends – especially the bow, it was plank built of thin planks inside and out blanketing narrow ribs with all three sewn together [virtually a composite structure], and these 3 flat surfaces essentially rendered a 3 panel boat with sharp chines in between – very similar characteristics to the carving in question:<br /> <br />http://www.prmprints.com/image/421718/hasan-bin-manati-in-thesigers-tarada<br /> <br />And lo-and-behold, I found one photo of a tarada that seems to have a knurling to the top inside bow end:<br /><br />http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/files/2015/09/02_p30-31-lively-village-scene-RGB.jpg<br /> <br />So I think the carved boat is a melding of 2 co-existing boat forms - by taking the posture of the bundle boat, superimposing on it the flatter surfaces of the tarada, while making reference to the grass derived bundles by the inset leafy carvings, and coalescing the sweeping bows of both, and incorporating the end knurling of some specific taradas.<br /><br /> But what is not answered is why the dramatic bow upturn, the almost symbolic posture of the carving? . . . . And I think the answer is in one of the most important symbols that they may have related to – the symbol of their very religion:<br /><br />https://sunandshield.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/crescent-moon-symbol-of-islam.png<br /><br />And that that is further supported by the kneeling posture, the bowed head of the humble paddler.<br /><br />So anyway, that’s my shot at it – it’s certainly not definitive – but I think it’s an acceptable attempt!<br /><br />Regards,<br />mick allen<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-15951332232411213002016-12-18T14:46:40.334-08:002016-12-18T14:46:40.334-08:00Mick, Many thanks for digging further into this. W...Mick, Many thanks for digging further into this. With so many nearly identical models out there, it's surprising that none of the sellers seem to know where they came from. Bob Holtzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-82372853287916455302016-12-12T22:13:59.385-08:002016-12-12T22:13:59.385-08:00Re: ‘Boat propelled by a kneeling paddler’
Hi Ro...Re: ‘Boat propelled by a kneeling paddler’ <br /><br />Hi Robert, <br />I’ve had fun trying to come up with a better derivation for ‘Boat propelled by a kneeling paddler’ but it’s an elusive quarry. I have a strong supposition of what it really is about, but supposition is all it is. <br /><br />But firstly before they become stale, here are some links to identical and similar tourist type models – I would guess the ebay photo copyrights are not much of an issue and the photos could be shown here, but in any case grab or at least check them out while they’re current:<br /><br />one is identical to the Buckyboat with ‘African’ derivation implied in its link:<br />http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Carved-Wooden-Boat-with-Man-and-Long-Boat-aaa344-/262724118725?hash=item3d2b93e8c5:g:KBEAAOSwwbdWGt0y<br /><br />and this one is a little birdheaded, as well as supposedly ‘ancient Egyptian’:<br />http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-1-2-GREAT-WOOD-ART-ANCIENT-EGYPTIAN-ONE-MAN-RIVER-BOAT-BARGE-SCULPTURE-/142200994929?hash=item211bd6fc71:g:MwIAAOSw8oFXzxmL<br /><br />another similar is handcarved with a ‘lance’ but is more simplistic and crude and has no derivation:<br />http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/282288717132?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=282288717132&rmvSB=true<br /><br />another with a ‘rower’ with paddle similar to the lance proportion and also no derivation:<br />http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/152345221124?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=152345221124&rmvSB=true<br /><br />and lastly another is ‘Pacific Islands’ with small bladed paddle:<br />http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/172419155519?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=172419155519&rmvSB=true<br /><br />and they’re worth anywhere from $18 to $69 plus shipping. <br /><br />So Africa, ancient Egypt, South Pacific Islands or Hawaii? . . . the possibilities cover half the world!<br /><br />Regards,<br />Mick Allen<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-38196951841574206842016-11-08T06:57:18.274-08:002016-11-08T06:57:18.274-08:00Forgot to mention: Fuller spent time in Maine (I j...Forgot to mention: Fuller spent time in Maine (I just spoke with Lance Lee, who says he built his first geodesic dome on one of the islands), so the collection of his models is of interest to the museum on that basis.Bob Holtzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-10797149651834883932016-11-08T06:54:10.889-08:002016-11-08T06:54:10.889-08:00Mick,
No question, you nailed the African model. T...Mick,<br />No question, you nailed the African model. Thanks so much.<br />The high prow on the Malvidian boat is lovely and dramatic -- never seen it before. The fact that it's a sailboat disqualifies it as the basis for the model, I think.<br />Canoes are paddled from a kneeling posture in many cultures, and the Peruvian surfboat is paddled with a double-bladed paddle, while the paddle in the model had a single blade (broken off and missing), so I don't think we have a convincing ID for that one yet.<br />I agree that the models aren't of interest as study tools to learn anything about the real vessels they represent. The fact that they belonged to Bucky Fuller partially justifies them. In addition, a collection of tourist-trade models might be worthwhile in its own right to study how different cultures approach a single theme in an economic and artistic endeavor with a similar customer base.Bob Holtzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-83429117673541664102016-11-07T21:27:37.930-08:002016-11-07T21:27:37.930-08:00What the heck, here’s some more input:
Other exam...What the heck, here’s some more input:<br /><br />Other examples of the “dugout (?) canoe” type mentioned can be seen with a “Kenyan canoe carving” google search - where you’ll get a bunch of hits for virtually identical touristy type models. <br />For example:<br />https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usedphotosna/40087949_934.jpg<br /><br />The last example “Boat propelled by a kneeling paddler”, has the gestural flow of a Maldives traditional Dhoni fish boat prow, however the posture, proportion, and scale is similar to that of a Peruvian reed surfboat. It’s a toss-up, but I think I’d actually go with the model being derived from the gesture versus from the proportion and scale potential reference.<br /><br />Maldives Dhoni sailboat:<br />http://www.plazaholidays.com/plazaholidays2014/images/holidayimages/Maldives/maldives%20paradise%20island%20hotel%20photodos-spaus-hotels.jpg<br /><br />Peruvian Totora reed surfbt at Huanchaco beach:<br />http://footage.framepool.com/shotimg/qf/815350684-reed-boat-peruvian-lima-city-paddling.jpg<br />http://cdn.adventure.travel/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/017686_200.jpg<br /><br />All the boat models seem to be of similar touristy quality, so unfortunately for the museum, possibly this selection is not really of much interest other than for who and maybe why it was originally acquired.<br />regards, <br />-Mick Allen<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-59105958031156576372016-11-06T12:42:56.190-08:002016-11-06T12:42:56.190-08:00Thanks Mick. We'll revise the post and work th...Thanks Mick. We'll revise the post and work the detailed info. you've provided into the description.Bob Holtzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878339327766256094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466695305125791022.post-15156608818948745492016-11-04T21:23:20.662-07:002016-11-04T21:23:20.662-07:00The boat called “Canoe, probably Southeast Asia” i...The boat called “Canoe, probably Southeast Asia” is an abstraction of sampans from Tonle Sap Lake in Cambodia or from that connected section of the Mekong river. These boats range in size from about 12 ft [4 m.] to about 25 ft [8m]. Each end is smoothly carved from one log piece with stepped insets for each level of planking of the main body. The keel connecting the two carved ends is also deeply shaped following the a curved cross section. The minimum number of planks each side of the keel is 3 with 1 washstrake plank increasing to 4 or 5 with 2 washstrake planks. Most planking is carvel on frames, decks are planked parallel to the gunwales. Washstrakes stop either short of both ends or one end only with the other end resolving to the carves ‘stems’. <br /> Most examples seem to be more curvaceous in plan that the model, but the inset carving on the model does not seem to be present on the common examples that I’ve seen, however they are painted in varying colours: blue for the exterior, reds and oranges for the upper stem facets and the rest left uncoloured. Whatever the case, these sampans are supremely elegant. <br />-Mick Allen<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com